From phessler at theapt.org Sat Nov 1 11:47:11 2008 From: phessler at theapt.org (Peter Hessler) Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2008 11:47:11 +0100 Subject: 4.4 a little early?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081101104710.GB9062@gir.theapt.org> 4.4 was officially released a little early. It was announced yesterday (European time). On 2008 Oct 31 (Fri) at 15:08:02 -0400 (-0400), Carlos Lugo wrote: :ftp://rt.fm/pub/OpenBSD/4.4/ : :8) : :Looks like they left the permissions too restrictive on that directory... :_______________________________________________ :Openbsd-newbies mailing list :Openbsd-newbies at sfobug.org :http://mailman.theapt.org/listinfo/openbsd-newbies -- The opossum is a very sophisticated animal. It doesn't even get up until 5 or 6 p.m. From soko.tica at gmail.com Mon Nov 3 14:36:20 2008 From: soko.tica at gmail.com (soko.tica) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 14:36:20 +0100 Subject: A simple question about network shares on a pdc Message-ID: <93456eb20811030536x2f0619adk4f652e26295e048a@mail.gmail.com> Hello! I'm taking preparations to set a primary domain controller according to Daniele Mazzocchio's instructions http://www.kernel-panic.it/openbsd/pdc/ To fulfill the goal of having a share / address book that can be accessed both by Window$ and BSD users, should I install something in addition to SAMBA? There are manuals and howtos about NFS, but I just still did not figure what it is. Many thanks in advance for your input From ttdbsd at yahoo.com.au Tue Nov 4 12:50:16 2008 From: ttdbsd at yahoo.com.au (T D) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 03:50:16 -0800 (PST) Subject: pkg_info Message-ID: <146872.81850.qm@web59401.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Hi all, I am Tom and I'm new to Openbsd, I pre-ordered 4.4 and have installed it, installation easy compared to some other operating systems. I have been reading the faq at the openbsd website and exploring the system and trying to get farmilar with it when I enter the pkg_info command for a list of installed packages it does not show anything, goes back to the command prompt. Also tried pkg_info -a and pkg_info -A same response. Why would it be doing this and how do I fix it? Thanks Tom Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theapt.org/pipermail/openbsd-newbies/attachments/20081104/4e65e9aa/attachment.html From phessler at theapt.org Tue Nov 4 12:53:11 2008 From: phessler at theapt.org (Peter Hessler) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 12:53:11 +0100 Subject: pkg_info In-Reply-To: <146872.81850.qm@web59401.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <146872.81850.qm@web59401.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20081104115310.GD9062@gir.theapt.org> That is because you didn't injstall any packages. OpenBSD doesn't treat the base install as packages. Packages only refer to 3rd-party applications that are installed after the fact. E.g. mozilla-firefox, pidgin, marathon2, etc. On 2008 Nov 04 (Tue) at 03:50:16 -0800 (-0800), T D wrote: :Hi all, :I am Tom and I'm new to Openbsd, I pre-ordered 4.4 and have installed it, installation easy compared to some other operating systems. :I have been reading the faq at the openbsd website and exploring the system and trying to get farmilar with it when I enter the pkg_info command for a list of installed packages it does not show anything, goes back to the command prompt. :Also tried pkg_info -a and pkg_info -A same response. :Why would it be doing this and how do I fix it? :Thanks :Tom : : : : Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 :_______________________________________________ :Openbsd-newbies mailing list :Openbsd-newbies at sfobug.org :http://mailman.theapt.org/listinfo/openbsd-newbies -- Lazlo's Chinese Relativity Axiom: No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats -- approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less. From jjhartley at gmail.com Tue Nov 4 18:25:35 2008 From: jjhartley at gmail.com (James Hartley) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:25:35 -0800 Subject: pkg_info In-Reply-To: <146872.81850.qm@web59401.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <146872.81850.qm@web59401.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:50 AM, T D wrote: > Also tried pkg_info -a and pkg_info -A same response. You will want to spend time studying Section 15 of the FAQ: http://openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html From adam at akarsoft.com Tue Nov 4 18:31:49 2008 From: adam at akarsoft.com (D. Adam Karim) Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2008 09:31:49 -0800 Subject: pkg_info In-Reply-To: <146872.81850.qm@web59401.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> References: <146872.81850.qm@web59401.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5D148CA3-E5EE-4353-8A4B-543DE0CB5753@akarsoft.com> Try this: ls /var/db/pkg | less --- D. Adam Karim Sent from my iPhone On Nov 4, 2008, at 3:50 AM, T D wrote: > Hi all, > I am Tom and I'm new to Openbsd, I pre-ordered 4.4 and have > installed it, installation easy compared to some other operating > systems. > I have been reading the faq at the openbsd website and exploring the > system and trying to get farmilar with it when I enter the pkg_info > command for a list of installed packages it does not show anything, > goes back to the command prompt. > Also tried pkg_info -a and pkg_info -A same response. > Why would it be doing this and how do I fix it? > Thanks > Tom > > Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 > Dating. Get Started. > _______________________________________________ > Openbsd-newbies mailing list > Openbsd-newbies at sfobug.org > http://mailman.theapt.org/listinfo/openbsd-newbies -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theapt.org/pipermail/openbsd-newbies/attachments/20081104/c4bf1734/attachment.html From ttdbsd at yahoo.com.au Wed Nov 5 22:03:20 2008 From: ttdbsd at yahoo.com.au (T D) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 13:03:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: pkg_info In-Reply-To: <20081104115310.GD9062@gir.theapt.org> Message-ID: <422087.21501.qm@web59415.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> I thought that might be the case, it makes sense. Would make it easy to see what has been installed on a system after the base has been installed. Thanks --- On Tue, 4/11/08, Peter Hessler wrote: From: Peter Hessler Subject: Re: pkg_info To: "T D" Cc: openbsd-newbies at sfobug.org Received: Tuesday, 4 November, 2008, 10:53 PM That is because you didn't injstall any packages. OpenBSD doesn't treat the base install as packages. Packages only refer to 3rd-party applications that are installed after the fact. E.g. mozilla-firefox, pidgin, marathon2, etc. On 2008 Nov 04 (Tue) at 03:50:16 -0800 (-0800), T D wrote: :Hi all, :I am Tom and I'm new to Openbsd, I pre-ordered 4.4 and have installed it, installation easy compared to some other operating systems. :I have been reading the faq at the openbsd website and exploring the system and trying to get farmilar with it when I enter the pkg_info command for a list of installed packages it does not show anything, goes back to the command prompt. :Also tried pkg_info -a and pkg_info -A same response. :Why would it be doing this and how do I fix it? :Thanks :Tom : : : : Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 :_______________________________________________ :Openbsd-newbies mailing list :Openbsd-newbies at sfobug.org :http://mailman.theapt.org/listinfo/openbsd-newbies -- Lazlo's Chinese Relativity Axiom: No matter how great your triumphs or how tragic your defeats -- approximately one billion Chinese couldn't care less. Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theapt.org/pipermail/openbsd-newbies/attachments/20081105/37fb1152/attachment-0001.html From ttdbsd at yahoo.com.au Wed Nov 5 22:05:24 2008 From: ttdbsd at yahoo.com.au (T D) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 13:05:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: pkg_info In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <430870.59686.qm@web59411.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> That is one of the pages always open in my browser :) --- On Wed, 5/11/08, James Hartley wrote: From: James Hartley Subject: Re: pkg_info To: ttdbsd at yahoo.com.au Cc: openbsd-newbies at sfobug.org Received: Wednesday, 5 November, 2008, 4:25 AM On Tue, Nov 4, 2008 at 3:50 AM, T D wrote: > Also tried pkg_info -a and pkg_info -A same response. You will want to spend time studying Section 15 of the FAQ: http://openbsd.org/faq/faq15.html Search 1000's of available singles in your area at the new Yahoo!7 Dating. Get Started http://au.dating.yahoo.com/?cid=53151&pid=1011 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theapt.org/pipermail/openbsd-newbies/attachments/20081105/f02e6295/attachment.html From soc at visca.com Sat Nov 8 18:13:33 2008 From: soc at visca.com (soc at visca.com) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:13:33 +0100 Subject: svscanboot core dumps on 4.3 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20081108173446.01f997e0@69.94.110.70> Greetings: Today I updated 4.2 to 4.3 (details below). I'm using djb's daemontools which I start from rc.local with the command '/command/svscanboot &'. The problem is that, rebooting after the update, svscanboot dumps core (the coredump is at http://visca.com/svscan.core.txt). My dmesg is at http://visca.com/dmesg.txt. Any help would be appreciated. Lou PS - My update procedure was straight from the FAQ: rm /obsd ; ln /bsd /obsd && cp bsd /nbsd && mv /nbsd /bsd cp bsd.rd bsd.mp / cd / tar -C / -xzphf /usr/src/base43.tgz ./etc/firmware tar -C / -xzphf /usr/src/base43.tgz ./sbin/ifconfig shutdown -r now cd /usr/src/ tar -C / -xzphf base43.tgz tar -C / -xzphf comp43.tgz tar -C / -xzphf man43.tgz tar -C / -xzphf misc43.tgz tar -C / -xzphf xbase43.tgz chmod u+s /usr/sbin/suexec cd /usr/src/etc tar -xzphf etc43.tgz cp -Rf a* bgpd.conf c* /etc cp -Rf d* exports gettytab hotplug/ i* k* magic moduli motd mrouted.conf mtree/ /etc cp -Rf n* ospfd.conf phones portal.conf ppp/ pr* rbootd.conf /etc cp -Rf rc rc.conf rc.securelevel rc.shutdown remote ripd.conf rpc sasyncd.conf se* /etc cp -Rf sliphome/ snmpd.conf ssh/ ssl/ sudoers systrace/ ttys wsconsctl.conf /etc cp -Rf sysctl.conf /etc/ cd /dev ./MAKEDEV all useradd -u90 -g=uid -c"OSPF6 Daemon" -d/var/empty -s/sbin/nologin _ospf6d useradd -u91 -g=uid -c"SNMP Daemon" -d/var/empty -s/sbin/nologin _snmpd vipw emacs /etc/group rm /etc/hoststated.conf /var/named/standard/root.hint newaliases mtree -qdef /etc/mtree/4.4BSD.dist -p / -u chown root:operator /etc/chio.conf chmod 644 /etc/chio.conf shutdown -r now -- All the best (Ad?u-siau), Lou Hevly soc at visca.com http://visca.com From phessler at theapt.org Sat Nov 8 20:21:44 2008 From: phessler at theapt.org (Peter Hessler) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2008 20:21:44 +0100 Subject: svscanboot core dumps on 4.3 In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20081108173446.01f997e0@69.94.110.70> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20081108173446.01f997e0@69.94.110.70> Message-ID: <20081108192143.GA28979@gir.theapt.org> Its stongly recommended that you use bsd.rd, and choose "Upgrade", rather than untaring the files manually. That'll handle much of the magic for you. Additionally, 4.4 is out and has many improvements over 4.3. One nice tool is 'sysmerge'', which will handle updating your config files. Have you tried rebuilding the djb binaries? On 2008 Nov 08 (Sat) at 18:13:33 +0100 (+0100), soc at visca.com wrote: :Greetings: : :Today I updated 4.2 to 4.3 (details below). I'm using djb's :daemontools which I start from rc.local with the command :'/command/svscanboot &'. The problem is that, rebooting after the :update, svscanboot dumps core (the coredump is at :http://visca.com/svscan.core.txt). My dmesg is at :http://visca.com/dmesg.txt. : :Any help would be appreciated. : :Lou : :PS - My update procedure was straight from the FAQ: : :rm /obsd ; ln /bsd /obsd && cp bsd /nbsd && mv /nbsd /bsd :cp bsd.rd bsd.mp / :cd / :tar -C / -xzphf /usr/src/base43.tgz ./etc/firmware :tar -C / -xzphf /usr/src/base43.tgz ./sbin/ifconfig :shutdown -r now :cd /usr/src/ :tar -C / -xzphf base43.tgz :tar -C / -xzphf comp43.tgz :tar -C / -xzphf man43.tgz :tar -C / -xzphf misc43.tgz :tar -C / -xzphf xbase43.tgz :chmod u+s /usr/sbin/suexec :cd /usr/src/etc :tar -xzphf etc43.tgz :cp -Rf a* bgpd.conf c* /etc :cp -Rf d* exports gettytab hotplug/ i* k* magic moduli motd :mrouted.conf mtree/ /etc :cp -Rf n* ospfd.conf phones portal.conf ppp/ pr* rbootd.conf /etc :cp -Rf rc rc.conf rc.securelevel rc.shutdown remote ripd.conf rpc :sasyncd.conf se* /etc :cp -Rf sliphome/ snmpd.conf ssh/ ssl/ sudoers systrace/ ttys :wsconsctl.conf /etc :cp -Rf sysctl.conf /etc/ :cd /dev :./MAKEDEV all :useradd -u90 -g=uid -c"OSPF6 Daemon" -d/var/empty -s/sbin/nologin :_ospf6d :useradd -u91 -g=uid -c"SNMP Daemon" -d/var/empty -s/sbin/nologin _snmpd :vipw :emacs /etc/group :rm /etc/hoststated.conf /var/named/standard/root.hint :newaliases :mtree -qdef /etc/mtree/4.4BSD.dist -p / -u :chown root:operator /etc/chio.conf :chmod 644 /etc/chio.conf :shutdown -r now : : :-- :All the best (Ad?u-siau), :Lou Hevly :soc at visca.com :http://visca.com : :_______________________________________________ :Openbsd-newbies mailing list :Openbsd-newbies at sfobug.org :http://mailman.theapt.org/listinfo/openbsd-newbies : -- Q: How many right-to-lifers does it take to change a light bulb? A: Two. One to screw it in and one to say that light started when the screwing began. From soc at visca.com Sun Nov 9 13:54:46 2008 From: soc at visca.com (soc at visca.com) Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2008 13:54:46 +0100 Subject: svscanboot core dumps on 4.3 In-Reply-To: <20081108192143.GA28979@gir.theapt.org> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20081108173446.01f997e0@69.94.110.70> <5.1.0.14.2.20081108173446.01f997e0@69.94.110.70> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20081109120220.01f8ea80@69.94.110.70> At 20:21 08/11/08 +0100, Peter Hessler wrote: >Its stongly recommended that you use bsd.rd, and choose "Upgrade", >rather than untaring the files manually. That'll handle much of the >magic for you. Unfortunately I don't have physical access to the machine. Perhaps I should have mentioned as well that I have been doing updates since 2.8 and have never had a similar problem. >Additionally, 4.4 is out and has many improvements over >4.3. One nice tool is 'sysmerge'', which will handle updating your >config files. AFAIK there are no config files for daemontools. >Have you tried rebuilding the djb binaries? Just did this. No joy. I have just very carefully upgraded to 4.4 but the problem persists. Thanks for your comments. >On 2008 Nov 08 (Sat) at 18:13:33 +0100 (+0100), soc at visca.com wrote: >:Greetings: >: >:Today I updated 4.2 to 4.3 (details below). I'm using djb's >:daemontools which I start from rc.local with the command >:'/command/svscanboot &'. The problem is that, rebooting after the >:update, svscanboot dumps core (the coredump is at >:http://visca.com/svscan.core.txt). My dmesg is at >:http://visca.com/dmesg.txt. >: >:Any help would be appreciated. >: >:Lou >: >:PS - My update procedure was straight from the FAQ: >: >:rm /obsd ; ln /bsd /obsd && cp bsd /nbsd && mv /nbsd /bsd >:cp bsd.rd bsd.mp / >:cd / >:tar -C / -xzphf /usr/src/base43.tgz ./etc/firmware >:tar -C / -xzphf /usr/src/base43.tgz ./sbin/ifconfig >:shutdown -r now >:cd /usr/src/ >:tar -C / -xzphf base43.tgz >:tar -C / -xzphf comp43.tgz >:tar -C / -xzphf man43.tgz >:tar -C / -xzphf misc43.tgz >:tar -C / -xzphf xbase43.tgz >:chmod u+s /usr/sbin/suexec >:cd /usr/src/etc >:tar -xzphf etc43.tgz >:cp -Rf a* bgpd.conf c* /etc >:cp -Rf d* exports gettytab hotplug/ i* k* magic moduli motd >:mrouted.conf mtree/ /etc >:cp -Rf n* ospfd.conf phones portal.conf ppp/ pr* rbootd.conf /etc >:cp -Rf rc rc.conf rc.securelevel rc.shutdown remote ripd.conf rpc >:sasyncd.conf se* /etc >:cp -Rf sliphome/ snmpd.conf ssh/ ssl/ sudoers systrace/ ttys >:wsconsctl.conf /etc >:cp -Rf sysctl.conf /etc/ >:cd /dev >:./MAKEDEV all >:useradd -u90 -g=uid -c"OSPF6 Daemon" -d/var/empty -s/sbin/nologin >:_ospf6d >:useradd -u91 -g=uid -c"SNMP Daemon" -d/var/empty -s/sbin/nologin >_snmpd >:vipw >:emacs /etc/group >:rm /etc/hoststated.conf /var/named/standard/root.hint >:newaliases >:mtree -qdef /etc/mtree/4.4BSD.dist -p / -u >:chown root:operator /etc/chio.conf >:chmod 644 /etc/chio.conf >:shutdown -r now >: >: >:-- >:All the best (Ad?u-siau), >:Lou Hevly >:soc at visca.com >:http://visca.com >: >:_______________________________________________ >:Openbsd-newbies mailing list >:Openbsd-newbies at sfobug.org >:http://mailman.theapt.org/listinfo/openbsd-newbies >: > >-- >Q: How many right-to-lifers does it take to change a light bulb? >A: Two. One to screw it in and one to say that light started when >the > screwing began. -- All the best (Ad?u-siau), Lou Hevly soc at visca.com http://visca.com From chaz_meister_rock at yahoo.com Thu Nov 20 17:29:58 2008 From: chaz_meister_rock at yahoo.com (Chaz Gilbert) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 08:29:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: ssh reverse connection Message-ID: <82255.90216.qm@web30007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Greetings All, I'm not quite sure this question will make much sense; I'm sorta a go between with an Engineers Without Borders project.? Here goes... There's a Linux computer (distro unknown to me) deployed in the field running on sketchy power and sketchy internet connection.? It's running OpenSSH (version unknown to me).? There are engineers in the field there now (Haiti) that have direct access to the box; but the engineers are leaving soon and would like remote ssh access when they leave. This computer does not have a static IP address.? And it may be running a stripped down embedded Linux distro. So, the question is, how would any of you recommend remotely connecting to this computer?? I'm pretty sure it does have sshd running.? Should they just configure DynDns (or something similar)? Thanks for any help, Chaz -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theapt.org/pipermail/openbsd-newbies/attachments/20081120/8ff131d9/attachment.html From marmot at pennswoods.net Fri Nov 21 01:34:33 2008 From: marmot at pennswoods.net (Woodchuck) Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:34:33 -0500 (EST) Subject: ssh reverse connection In-Reply-To: <82255.90216.qm@web30007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <82255.90216.qm@web30007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 20 Nov 2008, Chaz Gilbert wrote: > So, the question is, how would any of you recommend remotely connecting to this computer?? I'm pretty sure it does have sshd running.? Should they just configure DynDns (or something similar)? That sounds like the obvious thing to do. Whether it's Linux or not doesn't make much difference. An alternative (a lousy one, perhaps a fall-back) is to have it send an email containing its current IPA to some place that the admins can all access ("myhaiticomputer at gmail.com"), whenever it comes on line. This can be worked into "ip-up" or the Linux equivalent. Dave From jus at krytosvirus.com Fri Nov 21 15:12:36 2008 From: jus at krytosvirus.com (Justin Krejci) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:12:36 -0600 Subject: ssh reverse connection In-Reply-To: References: <82255.90216.qm@web30007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0b5d01c94be3$35194e00$a000010a@usicorp.usinternet.com> I have written a perl script that will try to determine your public IP address if you are using NAT. In a nutshell what it does is make an HTTP call to various websites that will reply with your source IP. It then tracks changes to your IP. You can call the script regularly from cron. When it notices a change it generates an email with the IP address info. A previous method I used was for a simple HTTP request to go to my personal web server to some non-existent file (gets a 404) then I had a cgi on the web server that would parse the log for requests to that URL and return the log entry to the browser. Email me directly if you're interested. From chaz_meister_rock at yahoo.com Fri Nov 21 17:29:14 2008 From: chaz_meister_rock at yahoo.com (Chaz Gilbert) Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:29:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: ssh reverse connection In-Reply-To: <0b5d01c94be3$35194e00$a000010a@usicorp.usinternet.com> Message-ID: <156758.89625.qm@web30004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Thanks for everyone's recommendations.? What I didn't realize at the time of the initial post was there is a Satellite modem/router that sits in between the sshd and internet and performs NAT.? Nobody knows how or wants to touch this satellite modem thingy. Obviously, this makes things more difficult to reach the sshd directly from the internet. Also, what I didn't realize was that there are a few other computers on this network.? And that it is okay to require some level of user-interaction (in Haiti) to initiate a remote session. As a result, I set up uVNC SC (http://uvnc.com/addons/singleclick.html) on a windows machine in the Haiti network that points to a DynDns VNC listener host.? Voila!? The person on the Haiti network just double-clicks the uVNC icon and starts a VNC session to California.? Then the engineer can startup Putty on the Haiti windows computer and connect to the embedded sshd device. So, again, thanks for all your suggestions.? Although the engineers in California would rather just have remote access on demand directly to the embedded sshd device, this method works well enough. -Chaz --- On Fri, 11/21/08, Justin Krejci wrote: From: Justin Krejci Subject: RE: ssh reverse connection To: chaz_meister_rock at yahoo.com, openbsd-newbies at sfobug.org Date: Friday, November 21, 2008, 6:12 AM I have written a perl script that will try to determine your public IP address if you are using NAT. In a nutshell what it does is make an HTTP call to various websites that will reply with your source IP. It then tracks changes to your IP. You can call the script regularly from cron. When it notices a change it generates an email with the IP address info. A previous method I used was for a simple HTTP request to go to my personal web server to some non-existent file (gets a 404) then I had a cgi on the web server that would parse the log for requests to that URL and return the log entry to the browser. Email me directly if you're interested. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://mailman.theapt.org/pipermail/openbsd-newbies/attachments/20081121/498f1747/attachment-0001.html